Senate debates

Wednesday, 27 August 2014

Questions without Notice

Defence: Naval Vessels

2:29 pm

Photo of Kim CarrKim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Defence, Senator Johnston. I remind the minister that he justified his decision to exclude Australian shipbuilders from tendering to build Australia's new supply ships by saying, 'Construction of these ships is simply beyond Australian industry.' Is the minister aware that the Senate committee inquiry into the future of the naval shipbuilding industry has heard evidence that shipyards in Brisbane and Adelaide could handle the build and fit-out of the ships, with minimal new investment? Will the minister now apologise to the Australian shipbuilding industry and the thousands of workers employed in it for his incorrect, outrageous and derogatory statement?

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting

2:30 pm

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

Unlike the learned senator, I have actually read the submissions—

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

I cannot hear myself think.

Honourable senators interjecting

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Yes, pause the clock. Senator Edwards and Senator Wong!

Senator Cameron interjecting

Senator Cameron, Senator Carr has asked a question and he is waiting for a response. Minister, you have the call.

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

Having read the submissions, can I say Forgacs' statement to the Senate inquiry was that it had not previously as a company undertaken the construction of a ship of the size of 27,000 tonnes. The last time it built a ship was the Aurora Australis, 6,500 tonnes, a quarter of the size. Now, when they made their submission—if the senator was honest, and of course there is no honesty here—

Photo of Penny WongPenny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

Certainly not from you.

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

with, in the gallery, the people who control their preselections—Forgacs told the inquiry—

Photo of Doug CameronDoug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | | Hansard source

You just lie all the time.

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order, Senator Cameron!

Photo of Eric AbetzEric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | | Hansard source

He has to withdraw that. Mr President

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Yes, Senator Cameron, you will withdraw that, please.

A government senator: What about Senator Wong?

Photo of Penny WongPenny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, I—

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

I did not hear Senator Wong. I will take Senator Wong first. I did not hear Senator Wong, but if she feels she needs to withdraw—

Photo of Penny WongPenny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | | Hansard source

Well, I have been asked to withdraw, so I withdraw.

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

And Senator Cameron.

Photo of Doug CameronDoug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, I am not sure it is unparliamentary to say 'the Liberal Party lied'.

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

You did not say that.

Photo of Doug CameronDoug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | | Hansard source

The Liberal Party lied.

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Senator Cameron, you are now repeating the miscarriage in the first place and you did say—

Photo of Eric AbetzEric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Minister for Employment) Share this | | Hansard source

You did not say that. He did not say that. He said 'you lie'.

Photo of Doug CameronDoug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | | Hansard source

No, you don't tell me what I said.

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Order, Senator Abetz! Senator Cameron, I will determine who said what. I heard what you said and I would appreciate you withdrawing it.

Photo of Doug CameronDoug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | | Hansard source

The Liberal Party did lie.

Photo of Stephen ParryStephen Parry (President) Share this | | Hansard source

Senator Cameron!

Photo of Doug CameronDoug Cameron (NSW, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Human Services) Share this | | Hansard source

I withdraw.

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

Forgacs also built the HMAS Tobruk,at 5,791 tonnes. Their submission says that 'with appropriate site development' they could have, at their graving dock, built a 27,000-tonne vessel—four times larger, 'with appropriate site development' of several billion dollars. What we inherited with respect to the air warfare destroyer was a failed third attempt to remediate the program. Hundreds of millions of dollars over budget, it was two years late. With an international benchmark of 60 man-hours per tonne, we set the benchmark at 80 man-hours per tonne—and what were they doing? One hundred and fifty man-hours per tonne. Some of these blocks had to be reworked up to four times.

I owe it, we owe it, to the taxpayer to get this right. There are eight ships for Adelaide if we can get this right. So, instead of bleating, get onto your mates up there and tell them to lift their productivity. It is that simple.

2:33 pm

Photo of Kim CarrKim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Given that the Australian industry was precluded from bidding, I refer the minister to his statement before the election to the ABC in Newcastle: 'I get really fired up when I find us giving away our manufacturing base in the Defence space to foreign manufacturers, it's just not on.' Will the minister now apologise to the hardworking men and women of the shipbuilding industry whose jobs will be sent to Spain and South Korea(Time expired)

2:34 pm

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

HMAS Success and HMAS Sirius are both very old and tired vessels. We are spending hundreds of millions of dollars to sustain and maintain both of them. As Warren King, the head of the DMO, told the inquiry, the decision was there to be made in 2008—and guess what? They did not take it. They squibbed it. So we are in urgent need of being able to replenish our ships at sea, our major fleet units, with proper resupply ships. And what we have to do when Success is in maintenance? We have to sail our frigates back to Darwin to refuel them. This is because the Labor Party take no responsibility. Not only did they rip $16 billion out of the defence budget; they did not make any decisions with respect to shipbuilding. Even Martin Hamilton-Smith criticised his own Premier— (Time expired)

2:35 pm

Photo of Kim CarrKim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. I remind the minister, once again, of his statement before the election, while standing in front of ASC in Adelaide:

We will deliver those submarines from right here at ASC in South Australia.

…   …   …

The Coalition today is committed to building 12 new submarines here in Adelaide …

Will the minister resign if he breaks his pre-election promise to build the new submarines in Australia?

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting

2:36 pm

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

What I can—

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

What I can tell the senator is that we will deliver an orderly transition between Collins and SEA 1000 new submarines. We will do that. We will also—if we can remediate the program—deliver, to South Australia and shipbuilding around Australia, 11 vessels. That is what we are setting out to do and that is what the Minister for Finance and I are working at day in, day out to try and achieve.

Photo of Kim CarrKim Carr (Victoria, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister Assisting the Leader for Science) Share this | | Hansard source

Will you resign if you break your promise?

Photo of David JohnstonDavid Johnston (WA, Liberal Party, Minister for Defence) Share this | | Hansard source

What we inherited from you was nothing more or less than an utter, disgraceful mess.