Christopher Pyne (Sturt, Liberal Party, Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I just do not feel that the member for Fowler's heart was in that question. Obviously, it was his turn to turn up and ask a foolish question without the facts, but I will deal with it. On the Americanisation issue that Labor raises—I explained this yesterday to the member for Lalor but I will explain it again—the United States does not have a higher education loan program. It does not bear any relation to the Australian system in how it supports its students. The idea that the government's reforms are making our system more like that of the United States is an absolute falsehood. The bizarre thing about the point is, imagine if the Australian university system was as successful as the United States system. The United States has 27 universities in the top 50 universities in the world. More than half of the top 50 universities in the world are in the United States. Apparently, America is the bogeyman of universities—

Ms Rishworth interjecting—

Mrs Bronwyn Bishop (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Kingston will desist.

Christopher Pyne (Sturt, Liberal Party, Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

yet it is the most successful higher education system in the world. In spite of that, Australia has the Higher Education Loan Program; the United States does not. Our HELP system is the envy of the world. Students pay, when they earn over $50,000 a year, two per cent of their income at the lowest loan rate they will ever get in their lives. That is why, in spite of the Hawke government introducing the Higher Education Contribution Scheme, when Labor was led by great leaders rather than the current Leader of the Opposition, the participation rate of Australians in the higher education system—

Mr Champion interjecting—

Mrs Bronwyn Bishop (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Wakefield will desist.

Christopher Pyne (Sturt, Liberal Party, Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

has continued to exponentially rise to the point where there are now 750,000 Australians—

Mr Champion interjecting—

Mrs Bronwyn Bishop (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I said, the member will desist.

Christopher Pyne (Sturt, Liberal Party, Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

getting an education offering in Australian institutions. If the Labor Party's logic was right, those students would not be enrolling at Australian institutions, but they are doing so in droves, because they know they can borrow their debt from the taxpayer.

Mr Champion interjecting—

Mrs Bronwyn Bishop (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Wakefield is the champion of the League table for people leaving the chamber. Do you want to add to it? If not, desist.

Christopher Pyne (Sturt, Liberal Party, Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I also think that perhaps the member for Fowler might have wanted to check his question given the revelation that the Leader of the Opposition has in fact said that America shows us the way. He only said that in an address to the New York Academy of Sciences in July this year. So, he says one thing in New York—

Ms Butler interjecting—

Mrs Bronwyn Bishop (Speaker) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The member for Griffith will desist.

Christopher Pyne (Sturt, Liberal Party, Minister for Education) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

and a different thing in Canberra. Now, there is a pattern here, of course, as we have seen before. He obviously does not realise that we can follow his statements when he is making them in New York—it's called Google! The reality is that you cannot say in New York that America shows us the way and then try to run a scare campaign about our great ally the United States when you are back here in Canberra.